TBH, it's the catching up on lj by looking over your shoulder thing that I really don't like. I think you're making a huge assumption about what other people are comfortael with.

I think you're making a huge assumption about what other people are comfortable with.

You're possibly right, hence the poll. I was interested to see how people on my friends list feel about this sort of thing.

I have a feeling that for the most part my lot wouldn't care, but if they do then obviously I'd want to know about it.

I suppose I just can't see why Bex would be remotely interested in friend-locked posts by people she doesn't know anyway, they're invariably not the interesting ones, with a few noteable exceptions.

Um, I suppose I'm cool with it because I don't know her. If I did, I might well not be - but I don't write to be directly read by someone I haven't chosen to friend.

In most cases I would say that if Bex doesn't know the person, the chances of me talking about them to her are fairly slim anyway, except in a general 'someone on my friends list said this, isn't that weird/interesting/funny' sense.

I'm fairly sure that no one on my friends list is about to object because they either don't know her, or do and like her.

It's interesting in your case, actually, since as an activist, gay parent and green person, things have come up in your journal that I've discussed with Bex. I hope that you're comfortable with that.

Yeah, I think so. Generally, though, I'm so obsessive about computer security (NOBODY knows my passwords) that I find a mindset of letting someone else read my friends list just... not me. Computer stuff is my only real private space, so I'm quite uptight about it.

To find an offline equivalent - if we knew each other as part of an offline friendship group, you'd talk about those things to Bex and I'd expect you to, so, yeah, why not from here?

Okay, well, that's one person I know I haven't offended, so that's good, heh.

I think hfnuala's right, in that I probably make assumptions about people regarding their comfort. I think it's the combination of the type of relationship I have with Bex (and the fact she's an internet type, but a lazy one), and the fact my journal is predominantly public, that does it.

Knowing the sort of person I am, you can be sure I have no problem with someone reading my journal. Hell I encourage it. It shall be mandatory....or womandatory.

Yeah, but people use LJ for different reasons. Mine is a lot like yours, for pretty general consumption, but there are a good number of folk on my friends list who post almost entirely friends only, and I forget of course, because I'm logged in pretty much all the time, so I don't even notice which stuff is locked and which isn't.

In that situation it would no doubt be some sort of ranty post, in which case people shouldn't say stuff like that behind anyone's back with expecting consequences. Or it would be a private matter like a family problem, in which case why post it to the internet when you could discuss it amongst friends in a more mature way?

I see friends only as a way of saying "look at me, I'm soooo popular". In some cases that's not true, but in others it's either a way to insult people without their knowledge or some sort of supreme arrogance.

I don't think that's necessarily fair.

Friends-only isn't for me, because (a) I rarely discuss anything private on my journal, and (b) I'm a pretty public person anyway and even the more private stuff is okay for most to hear. I don't care what strangers read, and I wouldn't say anything on here unless my whole friends list was cool to see it.

I mainly use locked posts for party invites, because I like my parties small and perfectly formed, and to keep my sister/other family members from seeing posts about them. Not 'OMG my 'tives suck', but 'here is some musing on my family that I doubt they would understand or appreciate, you know?

However, I completely understand why some people keep their journals private. A good number of people on my friends list are part of cliques that have their own dramas and secrets and stuff, and much as I would never have gotten involved in that stuff in the first place, once you are, it's important to be sensitive to these issues. It's as much about sparing feelings and avoiding further trauma as it is about keeping secrets.

And there are other reasons, of course. Some people are quite sensitive and don't like the idea of some people reading certain posts, some people have sensitive jobs... well the list is up there, check the answers out on it and you'll see the sorts of reasons folk have. They're mostly pretty reasonable.

In my case, friends only was a way to avoid getting fired, if that's OK with you?

Eek! I think recycled_sales was referring to a certain trend rather than specific/exceptional circumstances. Not to defend him or anything (see my reply to his comment), but I think he's guity of generalisation rather than bull-headedness.

No, of course it's not ok with me.

Chris, don't start, if she chooses to pay the slightest bit of attention, she'll eat you for breakfast.

I guess this represents the biggest problem with journals/ blogs etc. They are by their design meant to be viewed. That's why they're online, on a server miles away with all the potential to either accidentally or "accidentally" be viewed by the wrong people.

Diaries are made to be private, they're books with covers and are small enough to secret away in a cupboard or desk. We put private feelings and thoughts in them, we insult people we wouldn't otherwise, we moan about our work and so on. To make believe that an online journal is a replacement for that is silly.

And just as a personal view (which I'm worried might be misunderstood so if anyone reads this and jumps to conclusions please be gentle): If you're saying things on your journal about people then eventually someone will find out, and having a net based version of Chinese whispers is going to do far more damage than anything else.

Maybe I'm naive to think that honesty is a good policy, and as I say this is my personal opinion on the majority of cases and not a blanket statement for everyone who posts friends only. I just think that in those situations where you're saying things about people or jobs without their knowledge, you're letting yourself in for a bad situation if they find out.

...And that's probbaly an angle I'd have agreed with at one point.

On consideration, though, as I've said, LJ is different for different people. For a long time I kept both an LJ and a pen&paper journal, and they served different purposes for me. Indeed, a written journal is almost always entirely private. But LJ can be a public forum for your life, a way of staying in touch with friends, a place to vent about your work, all sorts of things. You need to understand that not everyone is as comfortable with everyone and his brother knowing your business as you and I are.

Yes, things get out. Chinese whispers, people being indiscreet... it comes with the territory, and I'm quite positive that 'friends only' types know that. But then it's their responsiblity to make sure that their friends are people of integrity, and it's our responsibility as their friends to make sure they know where they stand with us.

It must be nice to be so certain about other people's motives.

This is rant food for me, actually, spawning from people who tell their partner EVERYTHING. Not so much in LJ or your case, but yes, I get pissy when people I am friends with break my trust, be it in LJ or real life. Result? I just won't tell them anything again.
You are not your partner. Being friends with you does not oblige me to be friends with and trust your partner. You love them, I don't have to.

Yeah, it does seem to be a fuel for rantage for a few folk.

I guess it's just such an alien concept to me that anyone would be friends with me and not with Bex (that is to say, if they know her more than a little).

I mean, I'm not about to go: "Hey Bex, here's what's happening in the lives of everyone on my friends list", but I would go, "Dude, Sadhbh posted another rant that nearly made me wet myself".

I don't think anyone on my friends list shares stuff with me that's so private that they wouldn't want even Bex knowing - I just can't think of anything that would ever apply to. In the context of the stuff on LJ I would ever be likely to discuss with her, I mean.

I guess, in my head, once you know Bex, if you don't like her (generally more than you like me, she's much nicer after all), then there's probably something wrong with you. It's yet to happen, mind you.

Bex is cool. Other peoples significant others are not. :) Hence the fact that I am saying IN GENERAL, yeah, it pisses me off, although in this specific, it doesn't. You get me?

First off I haven't friended Bex, 'cos I don't know her very well. I've met her about a dozen or so times and I think we've exchanged 14 words in total.

However I think that in the case of a couple, unless they are fine with it, I don't think you should send too many closed files, its deliberately playing trust games. ["I'm only telling you this, keep it a secret from your partner and never ever tell them." is malicious, stupid, destructive and pathetic.]

I do use them, and quite regularly, to talk to one person in a closed loop. Usually out of mind of her partner, but primarily because I'm trying to contact her and shes decided to go to Durham randomly. I would have no problems with her partner reading them, unless they were game information, or some similar situation where both had agreed to keep things secret. (surprise birthday parties etc...)

As I said in your survey. I use locked entries to a) Avoid work problems & b) Send private contact slips of such and such are you going to the such and such & c) Occasionally send secure information when I have no other means of doing it. I once had to pass somebodies full address. Entry went up locked and was deleted 5 minutes later.

Off hand if I locked something for you, I'd have absolutly no problems with Bex reading it.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm vaguely aware of the concept of people being friends with a person and not wanting their partner to know stuff, but (and I'm trying to tread carefully here, but...) I sort of think that if you're comfortable with someone deliberately locking your partner out of something they're telling you, it says something about trust levels in your relationship.

"I sort of think that if you're comfortable with someone deliberately locking your partner out of something they're telling you, it says something about trust levels in your relationship."

I'm not so sure. I think the important thing is that everybody who posts to you knows a) who your partner is (as in lj name), and b) that you don't keep secrets from her. After those two statements it's their fault and their fault alone if they send you something that they dont want her to read, and she does.

At the same time I know of one couple who arn't on each others friends lists (I kid you not) and they seem fine. He's a wargamer (with trays of carefully painted 5mm napolionics in his shed) and I think she's into making cuddly toys. They don't cross hobbies and have different LJ friends lists. I don't expect her to read his largely becuase she wouldn't. And I've used her list to send her secret information about him, arranging a party for him, she wanted some details about wargaming and who he played with.

Oh, God, in the case of parties and so forth, fair enough.

Ultimately, everyone uses LJ for their own reasons. I use mine to stay in touch with friends, most of whom I know in person. If they came up to me in person and said "You can't tell Bex this" I wouldn't want to know either. The same thing applies here.

Cool ^.^

I think it depends on the relationships - both with your partner and with the friend in question.

Like, I've been with chillies for nearly 9 years. But I have friends I've known for longer who don't know him well - not that they couldn't become friends, but they haven't - mostly for geographic reasons. One of those people confides in me a fair amount and I don't tell A any of that stuff because it isn't my story to tell. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. I guess that in my case, I have the kind of relationship where in the situation where someone's confiding in me, assuming it's something that makes some kind of impact on me, I'd be inclined to talk to Bex about it simply as a way of rolling it around in my head, in the way that BB (Before Bex) I would have written about it in my pen&paper journal. She'll be like, "How was your day?" and I'll say, "I was talking to X, T has happened, I'm not sure what to say to her, what do you think?" sort of thing. She's my sounding board, and in so many ways my other half - sometimes the more profound stuff I read or am told or whatever just doesn't make sense to me until I've talked to her about it. Stuff that's going on my head, even when it involves other people, is stuff that I want to talk to her about. Do you see where I'm coming from?

I tend to assume that couples in a serious relationship will share most things and I generally think it's unfair to ask one to keep a secret from the other. I realise some people have different boundaries with their partners and that's fine, but it's not my default assumption.

I also assume that tbh, I don't know you and Bex well enough to be the subject of indepth conversation ;)

That said, I'd be pissed off if someone was party to some of my filtered stuff and started sharing it with a random they were casually dating, particularly if the person knew me and it wasn't someone I was happy to share that stuff with.

Obviously there would be a problem if one of my friends got serious with someone I thought was an asshole or actively didn't get on with. In that situation I would probably just tell them less, rather than put them in an awkward position, but tbh it's yet to come up.

I have a similar approach to you with alienspacebat, but as you say, it doesn't mean I actively tell him everything. I'm unlikely to mention something unless I want advice or I think it affects him (or it's very funny / thought-provoking - most of these are public). He might use my computer, but tbh he doesn't care to look through my friends list.

If someone who doesn't know Tim at all gets pissed off because of my approach, they're exaggerating their own importance a bit. If they're a reasonably good friend of mine, they'll know him and if they're not, then I don't think he's going to be that interested anyway!

I do know a couple of friends have me on filters he's not on. The content of these wouldn't interest or affect Tim, so there's no conflict in my mind. We live together, so he potentially could see it, but I don't actively show him it.

On the other side of that, I wouldn't appreciate being asked to keep something from Tim specifically, without good reason. I particularly would not do so if it impacted on him or required me to be deceitful, but that's something I would always say upfront.

Yeah, I think we have the same approach.

Obviously there would be a problem if one of my friends got serious with someone I thought was an asshole or actively didn't get on with.

This has happened to me once. The friend in question wasn't a close friend, although they might have become so if it weren't for the timing of them starting to go out with the asshole. In the end, we remain casual acquaintances, where otherwise I might have made more effort to be closer. I would never tell the person anything they couldn't tell their partner... and so I just don't tell them anything.

Oh jeez, I tell Greg when something funny is on LJ. Or when someone says something stupid. He even reads my friends liste over my shoulder occasionally. Like for instance, I showed him that flyer you made the other day. He thought it was neat.

Not that I post anything fascinating to the point where you would want to talk to Bex about, but if I did, that would be a okay with me.

Oh and I don't friends lock to be arrogant, I do it to avoid death threats. I had to change my phone number and get a PO Box for the same reason.

I work on the assumption that in lj as in life if people are in a long-term thingy and i say something that touches/concerns them it may well be passed on to their partner. But then I'm a very open person. A friend once said that I'd tell anyone anything. This is true on the whole. If it were very personal and told to the other person face to face I might object.

the only bit I'm not totally comfortable with is the reading over your shoulder bit and then I don't mind for you two but I do mind for some other couples. I've had a minor falling out with someone on this topic recently, mainly because she used his journal to post "please friend me" when she had recently physically attacked me. Now I'd said no hard feelings to her when she apologised to me by email, but there is a big difference between "no hard feelings" and "i want to take you into the level of confidence of friends only posting" or even "i want to read about your goings on or at least make you think I do".
Also having different members of couples on different filters and different members of couples having different friends on filters was a noticable descent of mine and Red-Phil's relationship. The more apart and over it feels the less our postings overlap. sad and sore but true.